not printing right

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evanr
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

Re: not printing right

Post by evanr »

Print aborted again.
3rd print in 2days.

Extruder tip scraped the support material while moving across the part and the material peeled off the bed creating a mess. I see no visible signs of part warp.

Is there a solution to this?
Last edited by evanr on Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

evanr
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

Post by evanr »

I adjusted the pot-meters again.
... also chopped up the 48hr print into 3pcs about 6hrs each to print... gives me better piece of mind. No printing support needed this way.... printing now.

I had no idea the pot-meters had to be adjusted and tweaked so frequently.
Is this normal? Is there a way to keep those little screws from vibrating lose?

hvdd
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:43 pm

Post by hvdd »

these pot's , once set , box closed , never adjusted again !!!

evanr
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

Post by evanr »

HVDD, I don't have the same experience as you with the pot-meters. The part wasn't printing right and I noticed the screws turned to the left last I checked so I had to adjust them again. I must have adjust these pot-screws about 400x+, no kidding.

SCENARIO:
I adjust the potmeter, print the 40x10 test part (which comes out ok, not great), then print an actual part. After the actual part is printed I then print the 40x10 test part and it is not good, layers are wavy and off. So, I have to adjust the pot-meters again and again and again until the 40x10 test print looks ok so I can then print an actual part. It seems they have to be adjusted for every print on a daily basis.

It is a very frustrating process.... print 40x10 - adjust pot-meters - print actual part - print 40x10 - adjust pot-meters.

Is there any reason why the 40x10 test part doesn't look good after an actual part print?

Now it is printing again and the Extruder tip is scraping across the support material again. It is going to rip it off and the part will be useless again.

why all these problems?

Kjetilei
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:26 pm
Location: Stavanger, Norway

Post by Kjetilei »

Could you post photos of good and failed 40x10 test part (preferably from the same sequence)? You should not have to adjust the potmeter constantly. I haven't touched mine in a very long time.

I have a lot of suggestions masked as questions below:
Do you print the first test part right after you have heated the hot end and bed or do you wait for more stable/even results?
How do you prepare your hotbed before printing? Painters tape or Kapton with alcohol treatment?
Is the hotbed completely flat and level? Mine is not perfectly flat...
Have you mounted the fan connected to the airduct the correct direction (blow instead of suck)?
Have you tested to see if a part adheres better/worse on different areas of the hotbed?
Have you adjusted anything in the profile you use or do you use default profiles from Guillaume?
Is the height for when the hot end starts scraping the printed part constant?
Have you printed some of the gcode files provided by Guillaume on this forum?
Is the hot end oozing a little filament when left idle for 10-30 seconds? Try to get it to ooze a little bit and turn the temperature down 5-10 degrees
Have you tried with different filament?

Good luck!

evanr
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

Post by evanr »

Kjetilei, thanks for your reply.
I did a few more tests, a whole day spent and nothing really good so now its time to drink wine :o)

40x10 test print is using 'Draft Quality' profile
Actual part is using 'Production Full Support' profile (layer thickness .1mm)
All prints used these settings:
Filament diameter: 1.69mm (as per caliper)
Extruder: 200C
Bed: 62C
Airduct Fan: off completely
Speed Multiply: 50

The pictures show a 40x10 test print, then Actual Part print, then 40x10 test print right after and then another 40x10 test print.

At the last test print (Print 4/4) I think I need to tune the pot-meters again, then it becomes a horrible routine of frustration.

I see some smolter/smoke briefly at times when printing the 40x10 test print.
I've printed it at 185, 195 and 200C. 200C gives the best print.
Kjetilei wrote:Do you print the first test part right after you have heated the hot end and bed or do you wait for more stable/even results?
I usually wait. Sometimes I do 10-15 test prints so at some point it should be stable temperatures.
Kjetilei wrote:How do you prepare your hotbed before printing? Painters tape or Kapton with alcohol treatment?
I use Laquer Thinner to clean the Kapton Tape, it tends to work most of the time... hard to get the part of, has to really cool... works well. I'll try Rubbing Alcohol next.

Kjetilei wrote:Is the hotbed completely flat and level? Mine is not perfectly flat...
Never thought of this.

I just placed a straight edge on it to test... it looks ok, the area I print in most of the time is marginally higher. I guess a quick solution to this would be a flat sheet of sanded glass attached to the bed.

Any idea how thick/thin the glass sheet could be?
Kjetilei wrote:Have you mounted the fan connected to the airduct the correct direction (blow instead of suck)?
This one has me puzzled. I followed the instructions in the manual which said label side down into airduct..... but then I think maybe the manufacturing facility placed the label on the opposite side. Mine is sucking from the motor side and blowing across the part/extruder tip.

I usually keep the Airduct Fan off. When I have it on (after the first few layers), it creates a problem where the filament can't deposit and it doesn't layer properly. I get better prints with the fan off. But then again the prints aren't all that great.

- Should the fan be blowing across the part/extruder tip OR blowing up across the motor?
- What is the purpose of the airduct fan?
Kjetilei wrote:Have you tested to see if a part adheres better/worse on different areas of the hotbed?
Yes. I've tried to print in different places, results are consistent.
Kjetilei wrote:Have you adjusted anything in the profile you use or do you use default profiles from Guillaume?
Yes. In "Production Full Support" profile:
I adjusted the filament diameter to 1.69mm from 1.75mm
I also adjusted the layer thickness from .25mm to .1mm

Is this bad?
Kjetilei wrote:Is the height for when the hot end starts scraping the printed part constant?
It seems so. diagonal and cross. I adjusted the Zpot screw thinking it wasn't rising enough, don't know if it really made a difference.
Maybe a glass bed would fix this too?
Kjetilei wrote:Have you printed some of the gcode files provided by Guillaume on this forum?
No. I have not.... I'll try this next.
Kjetilei wrote:Is the hot end oozing a little filament when left idle for 10-30 seconds? Try to get it to ooze a little bit and turn the temperature down 5-10 degrees. Have you tried with different filament?
Yes, it oozes a bit when left idle. It also extrudes a nice thin straight filament. Seems fine at this point. I have tried different filaments. I used blue prior to red... the red seems a little problematic.
Attachments
4th PRINT 4/4 - 40X10 TEST PRINT AFTER PRINT 3/4... IT IS GETTING WORSE
4th PRINT 4/4 - 40X10 TEST PRINT AFTER PRINT 3/4... IT IS GETTING WORSE
3rd PRINT 3/4 - 40X10 IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ACTUAL PART PRINT
3rd PRINT 3/4 - 40X10 IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ACTUAL PART PRINT
2nd PRINT 2/4 - ACTUAL PART PRINT, THE PART SPLIT ABOUT 3MM FROM THE BED AND KEPT PRINTING
2nd PRINT 2/4 - ACTUAL PART PRINT, THE PART SPLIT ABOUT 3MM FROM THE BED AND KEPT PRINTING
1st PRINT 1/4 - 40X10 TEST PRINT BEFORE ACTUAL PART PRINT.  THIS IS THE BEST I HAVE EVER HAD IT.
1st PRINT 1/4 - 40X10 TEST PRINT BEFORE ACTUAL PART PRINT. THIS IS THE BEST I HAVE EVER HAD IT.

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gfeliksdal
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Post by gfeliksdal »

Hi Evan, first off sorry you have to go through so much trouble...I notice a few things. Bed temp is quite high. I found the best to be at 55 degC. When too hot the part sags in a little and you get a larger temp gradient due to the hot spots. When measured 65 deg for instance it is approx 80 deg at the 4 resistors. This will cause warping for large parts.

Looking at your printed parts it seems that the nozzle is a little clogged or damaged. Best remedy would be to clean with a small 0.35mm drill.Also the temp is high for such a small part it should be somewhere between 185 and 190. also a double check, when you connect to the printer when it is cold, what is the temp reading? Is it the same as the bed temp.it should not deviate more than 2 degC

The airduct is best to leave on especially for small delicate parts. It cools the just extruded filament which ensures the structure of the part. Also if it blows at the extruder tip you've mounted it correctly

Also that you have to adjust the steppers so often is not normal. It is a one time thing. Are the heatsinks properly mounted? And is the fan working? If this is the case maybe the electronics board is damaged somehow. Normally the following setting is correct.first turn it fully counterclockwise then a quarter turn clockwise.

evanr
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

Post by evanr »

I shut the printer down for a few hours.
Booted it back up, hit the reset button on the ramps board about 10x (every day I do this), finally connected then did a few more test prints based on your post.

40x10 test print
Extruder: 200C first layer, then 190C thereafter
Bed: 55C
Fan: test with fan off, then on

These test prints are all only a few minutes apart.

PRINT 6 turned out great, the best test print yet.
So I did a few more to try to replicate it and it did not work, no consistency.

Heat sinks are mounted properly, they are not touching any circuitry.

Fan to circuit box is working. Actually, I have never secured the lid. It has always been off because of all the tuning on the pot-meters I am doing. There is plenty of ventilation.

Temperature at boot up:
Extruder: 25C
Bed: 24C

I tried to print _40x10_export.gcode40x10 located in the calibration folder but the printer froze and I couldn't print.

I also tried to d/l and unzip some gcode files as posted by Guillaume but the .zip file wouldn't extract.

.35mm extruder drill is next, I guess.
I'll try a different filament colour next too.
Can someone post a valid gcode file, please?
Attachments
PRINT 8 - SAME SETTING AS PRINT 6
PRINT 8 - SAME SETTING AS PRINT 6
PRINT 7 - SAME SETTINGS AS PRINT 6
PRINT 7 - SAME SETTINGS AS PRINT 6
PRINT 6 - FAN IS ON AFTER FIRST LAYER - BEST PRINT YET
PRINT 6 - FAN IS ON AFTER FIRST LAYER - BEST PRINT YET
PRINT 5 - FAN IS OFF
PRINT 5 - FAN IS OFF

evanr
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

Post by evanr »

I just tried a different filament (blue PRINT-9).
The settings are the same as in the previous post.
Fan on after first layer
200C start then down to 190C for Extruder
55C Bed

PRINT9 looks better than 7 or 8 but why the change?

Temperatures at Boot up are indeed the same at 24C Extruder/Bed.

... and yet, none of the prints are consistent?

I'll try to find a .35mm bit and drill it out to clean it?
Is this the only way?

Sometimes I don't have control of the printer.
I click and it is sometimes delayed response.
Most of the time it is good, except for boot up where I have to reset multiple times.

I tried Firm-E and Rep8.2b but all sorts of havoc was happening there.
So, I downgraded to FirmD and Rep7.0 (current setup).
Attachments
PRINT 9 - FAN ON AFTER FIRST LAYER
PRINT 9 - FAN ON AFTER FIRST LAYER

evanr
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:09 am

Post by evanr »

I can't see how it is possible to drill a .35mm hole into the extruder by hand.
Is there a better way to do this?

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