print quality problem

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angryangel
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Re: print quality problem

Post by angryangel »

so now i tryd difrent Temperatures to print almost no difference only at 190°C the Surface become dull instade of shiny

all prints where done with the 2_1 Normal Quality settings
IMG_0753deg1.jpg
IMG_0754deg2.jpg
a other thing i recogniced wehen the Hotend moves over the Surface it scratches a littel bit

you see that best in the second picture how can this happens??

thans for Youre help

angryangel
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Post by angryangel »

today i printed one part in high quality the surface was nearly perfect look her:
Fotoklein.jpg
but when i tested the part it broke it seams the top layer dosent stick good enoug on eachother look here
Foto2klein.jpg
how get i the high qulity parts stabel as the normal quality part?

and i still have the scretching problem

is there a ption to lower the bed bevor it crosed by the head??

rad
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:33 pm

Post by rad »

The sticking between layers is always a weakness of this printing process. Together with the brittle character of the PLA it's often a weak point. I had to learn this too.

I forexample figured that when you print at the recommended low temperature of 195 deg you often end up with very brittle parts and layers that do not stick well together. That alone is already reason enough for me to go with higher temperatures. But also if you want increase the sped to say 150% you need higher temps.

I am not quite sure if it's the temperature that matters at the end or the flow but with higher temperatur you increase the flow behaviour and a good flow is essential. Usually as higher temperature you go as stronger your part becomes in my experience up to the limit of about 240. But be warned 240deg is a bad idea the pla doesnt reacts well when it has to endure that temp longer and the extruder clogs very fast and at least for me also for me proven the original thermistors don't swallow that hight temperature well and becomes damaged over time.

The best is to check how well the fill pattern is printed. I observed that especially on high quality the fill isn't done proper at 195 deg. The flow is too less and the fill becomes to thin and doesnt hold together.

I created a small and thin square plate and on top of that a bit larger thin square plate as my test object for surface and stabily judgment. It's surprising to see what stability range you can create just with the temperature alone.
But the PLA color you use also matters.

What fill pattern did you use? I changed the crosshatch pattern in high quality to the hexagone one. I figured that the hexagone one has by default a lot less flow problem. It seems to me that somehow for the crosshatch something is not quite correct in the flow calculation in sfact.

The 0.1mm highquality should be the strongest. At least my figure that I printed with 0.1mm 220deg is the strongest of the 3 and seems to be as stable as it only can be but it's also the most heavy one and the one with the less brillance. The flow with 220 deg is a bit too strong for the 0.1mm layer it clearly put out a bit too much material. (or I may have to tune the printed width dimension in the config for this layer)

The best quality and details I got with 0.15mm / 220deg /hexagon fill white PLA this one also seems to have a perfect brilliance..not too shiny and not to dull and it's also still very strong.

the 0.2mm normal quality is ok but clearly a lot less stable.

So whenever possible I go with the 0.15mm

I printed the 0.1mm and the 0.15mm with 150% speed The speed doesnt seems to matter so much as long as you dont go over 150% (When the supports start to miss material then you are too fast.)

when your flow and fill is ok you maybe have to redisign the part to make the critical part stronger or support it in afterward with some glue and additional material.

hmm i always write too much.

edit: forgot: also check if the bolt for the filament clamping is stilla djusted tight enough. I have it that sometimes it doesnt fits anymore and I have to reajust it. I set it to extrude manual 40mm or so at a feed rate about 100 and 200
and check if its still feeds/can counter the force when I pull a bit backward. But dont ajust too strong. When it deforms the filament it requires a LOT additional force to put it through the extruder. (learned that with the flexible arnitel)

angryangel
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Post by angryangel »

@rad first yes you write muh but that are much helpfull Informations so its very good that you write much *G* and a Forum lifes from the Written word


i print at 205-210°C because it seams to be a better bounding i also printed a test 2 posts above at 220C but that was only to test the surfaceat the boarders thereare nearly no difference

perhaps i will play more around with the temperature

i have white and black PLA und one roll Black ABS( not tried yet) the black PLA i use because that was a part for my Bike and my bike is Black and i dont want to spent time with Painting*G*

i also Thougt it is a metter of the infill because ste standrd infil at hig quality is different to the normal Quality and the part i Printed in normal quality is much stronger

you write that you think or tested that the 0,1 layer hight is the strongest - hve you ad more top and bottom layers? becaus if you print at normal you have a bottom/top of 0,2mm x3 =0.6mm at hig quality if you don´t ad mor layers for bottom/top 0,1mm x3 =0,3mm perhaps this makes the print also less strong!?!
can you pst youre test-square?

i have a test "coine" *G* my testobjekt is the same thiknes and diameter like one euro coin so i can use the tests for the shopping cart *G*
but perhaps i schould try a square for test und testing the surface because the prindhead hav an other behavoir at round objekts

can you also post a pictutre of your top-layer surface??

redisign at this point is not nessesary bekaus te normal print is strong enough alread tested above 230km/h *G*

i already playd a lot with the filament clampingwith not much diffrence *G*

but i found yesterday night a solution for my scratching problem in sfact i found the "hop"-option and changed the hop from 1layer to 2 layers and 45°this seams to work fine

satoer
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Post by satoer »

(I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this been mentioned before).
Have you experimented with the infill perimeter overlap in the slicer settings?

Ratio -0.5:
Image
Ratio 0:
Image
Ratio +0.5:
Image
My Felix 1.5 printed designs on Thingiverse
E3D V6 Hot end upgrade for your Felix
Tweezer bracket for your Felix
Led bar upgrade for your Felix

angryangel
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Post by angryangel »

Hi satoer

That was Not mentioned bevor this Sounds interesting i will try this tonight

Thanks

rad
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:33 pm

Post by rad »

From my breaking tests of trash prints so far the 0.1mm was by far the one that required me the strongest force if printed correctly.
However I haven't tested something like your design. I mainly broke my failed figures apart and they break at the ankle of the feed or the thin arm in the middle of the volumen not in a corner of a part.

No I didn't add aditonal bottom or top layers.

The coin idea is clever. :lol: Never thought of this. But then I have the drink-holder in my car where I put in the coins for the market.

You drive too fast. :roll:

A hop option? I guess I have to check what this is.

Here is some of my surfaces.

Image

The left figure is with 0.1mm.. it shows bumb so it was printed with too much flow or wrong print width settings
The middle is with 0.15mm and is just perfect.
The right is with 0.2mm and well an older one before I adjusted my printer a bit better..especially eleminating the z-.axis wobble.

If you check the hands and fingers you see that the 0.15mm clearly is best. It isn't so clear visible in the 3 figure comperation but in the bottom right picture you see the 0.15mm again seen from over the shoulder.
Makes me very happy. (That's what I wanted to archive with arnitel and failed) Believe it or not but it was printed at 150% speed!
I have my perfects ettings for figure printings now.

My Test-Part you can see above. I fished it out of my plastic trash. Haven't printed such one since a longer time.
I see that the Top-Surface also shows sign of your problem. Never recognized that. Now it disturbs me! :)
But it isnt the best print anyway as you can see.

I think any quick design does it shouldnt matter if you make a cylinder or a rectangle

But if you want my details:
My Test-part is made for 0.2mm printing.
The Top-Square is 40x40x2mm
The bottom-Square is 20x20x2mm
and very quickly done with autodesk 123 design.

For testing 0.1mm or 0.15mm I rrecommend to create a smaller one else it takes much too much time to print for just testing.

I haven't printed normal construction parts for a while but just figures.
The last design prints I tried where propeller for a possible DIY quadcopter and they also have no flat surface. :)

But I guess I should print my test print with 0.15mm once. It's just after arnitel that I figured out that I get the best prints at 0.15mm.

p.s. don't know why the middle figure looks smaler then the other 2. They are all the same. I have to speak a word with my handy! :lol:

angryangel
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Post by angryangel »

@ rad if i print figures everything is all right quality is also very good
P1000979klein.jpg
this is just printed in normal quality without any optimising

just the problem at printing flat surfaces

perhaps it helps to make rounded edges instaed of sharp edges

youre figures are nice really good work what do you with this figures

but you say you get hubbles with to much flow perhaps this is the same problem at the surface!?!?

or do you know if it retracts at the edge of the surface??

but a also lookd other pictures of flat parts evry one ei found have this problems some more some less


and i drive not fast, i just fly very very deep *G*


@Satoer

it helps a lttil bit but still not perfect and if i go below 0,65 it display a warnig at slicing should i just ignore? or will that a cauese other problems?


at all any further ideas?

rad
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:33 pm

Post by rad »

Agree looks really good your figure print and without supports impressive.

With this girls? Nothing. I bought colors to color it but so far I haven't had the courage to start painting it. I am not very talented when it comes to paint art. If after myfail-painting they still look ok I will see where to place it. I dont know it yet .

I printed them for studing how well it is possible to print such figures. It's a figure of a blender animation try out.
It's original created with MakeHuman then animated with blender and then in an intensive process converted into a printable 3D object.
Took me 2 days to prepare that mesh. It's really not made for printing.
I am a bit into learning how to modell and do animation with the free 3D animation tool called Blender.
I would like to create/sculp real human figures and cartoon figures and animals and creatures and all those cool things but have somewhat 2 left hands when it comes to the builder-art. I keep trying however.

The bumps: I don't know if it's the same problem. But I know that I have eighter to drop the temperature for that 0.1mm or adjust the flow through other means. My main focus is the printing width parameter. Default its set to 0.4mm. I have set 0.35 for the 0.2mm, 0.38mm for the 0.15mm and I believe for the 0.1mm too. If I rise it back to 0.4 or set it even higher 0.42 it might help as I understand that parameter.
Unfortunatly confusing I found 2 such parameters in the config. Also possible I just reduce the flow when printing. Dunno. I will not print at 0.1mm often anyway. Although I am sure with the correct tuening you can get a very good surface too but the loos in brilliance and the long printing time and the more material it eats keeps me from it.

Flying is a cool thing. I once got a basic lession in helicopter piloting where I self flew a real bell 206 for 30min with the teacher at my side and 2 other students in the back. That's quite an experience. Loved it. Unfortunatly much too expensive to start this as a hobby.
So are you really flying or just driveing fast? I guess you are just driving fast. That's your thing. Just dont crash into anybody pls.

angryangel
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Post by angryangel »

i have the printer bought just for fun nothing special

i plan to make some parts for my bike they must be milled out of aluminium but first i want to print them for test and design

if you find time and a solution for this bumps let me know. perhaps i will try some more setting to modify this bumps at the surface is not really a problem if i use sandpaper i just havetu pull the part 2 or 3 times over it ansd the surface is fine but i wold like to have a good surface allready at printing.

i just drive fast *G* but i also allread flay a UL-Flyer but a Helicopter is much cooler *G* Helicopter i just fly as models

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