Next version wannahaves

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gfeliksdal
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Re: Next version wannahaves

Post by gfeliksdal »

See the attached file for the gcode print file. I print the parts at 210 degC. This normally results in a strong part, but it depends on the filament type used.
print_assy_y_stage_v2_export.gcode
print_assy_y_stage_v2_export.gcode
(5.11 MiB) Downloaded 102 times
Only thing you have to do is press the print button :). I haven't mounted this yet on one of my printers, so it is a little bit experimental, but it should be better than the current solution.

Kjetilei
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Post by Kjetilei »

Thanks. I'll try to print in a little while. I have just reassembled the x-axis and will test the result first.

Kjetilei
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Post by Kjetilei »

gfeliksdal wrote:No problem...please don't directly spray it on the rail, it will make a big mess. It is best to spray it on a q-tip and rub that agains the rail where the drylin/plastic parts make contact with the rail. I'm curious to the results
I used two drops of PTFE lubricant (thank God I bought 400ml ;) ) and that did the trick! No lugging (I think that is the correct term).
I also added Kapton tape to the slider to reduce/remove the vertical play. But even with only one side the friction increased to much. I decided it was better with some vertical play and good friction than the other alternative. It doesn't seem to affect the print quality.
gfeliksdal wrote:See the attached file for the gcode print file. I print the parts at 210 degC. This normally results in a strong part, but it depends on the filament type used.
print_assy_y_stage_v2_export.gcode
Only thing you have to do is press the print button :). I haven't mounted this yet on one of my printers, so it is a little bit experimental, but it should be better than the current solution.
Printing it now and looking very nice :)

stratogavster
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Post by stratogavster »

Here is a list of wanna haves!!!....


1.) Simpler Extruder - Currently too complex. Needs to be easier to maintain and adjustable on-the-fly.
2.) Filament feeding causes drag on extruder - An extra stepper should be used to pull a 'buffer' of filament off the reel for the extruder as asking the extruder and x-axis to do it is not good. Missed steps and bad print quality all-round!
3.) Extruder moving mass is very large! needs to be lighter
4.) X-Axis friction too high - New solution needed
5.) X-axis play/backlash HUGE!
6.) X-axis carrier pass through hole causes issues with the belt - friction!
7.) X-axis idler carrier - Currently suffers from creep under the fixing bolts.
8.) Z-axis opto sensor mount not parallel to assembly and is too close for comfort causes mechanical interference
9.) Z-axis opto sensor tuning mechanism is not good. Effectively it's upside down! it allows adjustment 'DOWN' not adjustment 'UP'. Needs to let you get close by eye then tune closer with a screw, not the other way around.....crash then tun away!!!
10.) X-axis motor mount makes maintenance difficult
11.) Y-axis 'pinched' belt causes high tension / friction in the system
12.) Y-Axis friction too high - New solution needed
13.) Y-axis play/backlash HUGE!
14.) Bed mounting is not pretty and does not offer the most ideal 'corner' based adjustment
15.) New bed mounting / heating required so that the bed has no holes to disrupt the print surface!!
16.) Z-axis linear slide play/backlash HUGE! - New solution needed
17.) Cantilever approach to Z-axis allows a lot of wobble to take place
18.) Electronics enclosure too small.
19.) RAMPS electronics suck in general - Poor wiring solution
20.) Stepper drivers suck - The heatsink solution is awful!! these things are under super thermal stress!! my 12hr prints will just not work :(
21.) Steppers too exposed to create a nice clean aesthetic
22.) During assembly it's easy not to align the Z linear slide and X linear slide in parallel and perpendicular arrangements as required. Its easy to misalign them. Relies on user skill and eye for detail to spot the potential risk!!
23.) Bed springs are a bit 'DIY'
24.) Extruder spring a bit 'DIY'
25.) Extruder 'gripper' wheel teeth too shallow...need to be deeper for better grip!
26.) Nice super low friction, low backlash, low play linear slides!

...to name just a few :P

Lioric
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Post by Lioric »

1. How to make it a simpler extruder?, simpler than that and you will end up with a silicone heat gun

2. Agree, not sure about the stepper in the spool, but at least a fixed "sleeve" to guide the filament from the reel, to make the extruder to do the heavy lifting (moving the mass of the reel) without relaying in the whole x-axis as well

3. Agree. Working on this

4. Not sure I follow you here, how is it too much friction there? to me it seems ok (and my sliding is not lubed with the recommended silicone yet)

5. Agree, not HUGE but there is some. Probably will try to solve it with the recommended method of kapton tape, sometime

6 and 7. What ? not sure Im seeing the same as you

8 and 9. To me it seems to be ok, probably you are doing it backwards. First tight the tunning screw the most you can, mount the plastic part to the chassis, get close by the eye first in a coarser way, THEN adjust with the tunning screw so the axis goes a little up until you get the desired clearance

10. Agree

Ok, that is a long list and 10 points per list is my daily limit ;) just a question, could you describe in more detail the RAMPS "suck" and stepper drivers "suck", as suck per se means nothing without a context

I'm really new to 3d printers (not even a week) and haven't used any other CNC controllers, but how in the world RAMPS suck?

Kjetilei
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Post by Kjetilei »

stratogavster/Lioric:

Great input!

It's always nice when there is room for improvements :) Hopefully Guillaume will be able to fulfill some/most of our wishes with an update or two :) Guillaume: No sleep for you ;)

My take on some of the input:
2. Placing the filament over the printer (e.g. Daniel's solution or my solution) works great for reducing/eliminating this problem
3. Loric: Are you designing a new extruder design, removing mass or replacing stepper (or something else)?
4. My current x-axis friction is great (although I really should add an extra extremely thin layer)
5. The tickness of Kapton varies. I have an extremely thick Kapton tape which males it harder to find the sweet spot. The needed kapton tape is a weakness of the sliding bearing
6-7. Me neither. Have you noticed any problems or just expect that it might be a problem?
10. Yes I do agree...
14. Do you mean that you would have liked the bolts to be located in the corners and on the edge? It would be nice but demand a redesign
23-24. May not look nice but makes for a flexible but firm solution
25. Deep grooves in filament can produce other problems. I like the current wheel :)

stratogavster
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Post by stratogavster »

forgot to add..

27.) Steppers with sockets on for easier wiring when doing super tidy things such as I did with braided cable covering.

feedback as follows....

@Lioric
1.) The extruder is made up of many parts and a complex arrangement of bolts and bearings and layered parts. Not to mention the nightmare of assembling the extruder. There should be sufficient clearance to allow a spanner in to grab the square part of the extruder body to allow tightening in the correct parallel position.

The Makerbot Mk7 extruder is in my view an elegant and simple extruder. There is a 1.75mm version on the market to buy.

4.) The over centre mass of the extruder assembly effectively twists the slider carriage in it's channel. For me this created massive friction problems which are only temporarily solved with PTFE lubricant. The linear slides are part of the IGUS Drylin series and are not meant to be used with oils really, and the amount of preload added to the bearings with kapton tape will increase wear and is creating a lot of 'stiction'

6.) I've had to tune the X-axis motor and idler vertical position to ensure the belt runs freely - a nightmare to do! The pass through hole should be taller.

7.) The X-axis idler when removed shows deformation under the washers - My bolts where quite tight but the mature of this material and the actual mechanical mounting makes in susceptible to creep.

8.) Disagree - doing it by eye was difficult and my first attempts lead to still using a large amount of the 'adjustment'. It's the first 'by eye' part. I could see others having huge deadly extruder crashes!!

RAMPS - I feel the mechanical solution here is very poor. Poorly handle wiring, poor layout, extremely poor thermal management. Generally just not robust enough for such a 'hackers' 'DIY' machine.

@Kjetilei
2.) Haven't seen this but will check it out - had a few ideas but so much to do before that! :)
14.) Yes I feel some kind of 'corner' holding system should be employed - i'm aiming to do a redesign myself :)
23-24.) I feel these wave washers don't really give the best 'feel' or 'repeatability' in this area. Plus alignment of these things is not nice, they tend to 'pop' out sometimes.
25.) Really do think it would benefit from another 50% more grip if it can be quantified. The current 'grip' drive I can see wearing down pretty fast!

Generally I feel the machine would benefit from an X and Y linear redesign - good old LM8UU bearings and dual rails!

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gfeliksdal
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Post by gfeliksdal »

stratogavster wrote:Here is a list of wanna haves!!!....


1.) Simpler Extruder - Currently too complex. Needs to be easier to maintain and adjustable on-the-fly.
2.) Filament feeding causes drag on extruder - An extra stepper should be used to pull a 'buffer' of filament off the reel for the extruder as asking the extruder and x-axis to do it is not good. Missed steps and bad print quality all-round!
3.) Extruder moving mass is very large! needs to be lighter
4.) X-Axis friction too high - New solution needed
5.) X-axis play/backlash HUGE!
6.) X-axis carrier pass through hole causes issues with the belt - friction!
7.) X-axis idler carrier - Currently suffers from creep under the fixing bolts.
8.) Z-axis opto sensor mount not parallel to assembly and is too close for comfort causes mechanical interference
9.) Z-axis opto sensor tuning mechanism is not good. Effectively it's upside down! it allows adjustment 'DOWN' not adjustment 'UP'. Needs to let you get close by eye then tune closer with a screw, not the other way around.....crash then tun away!!!
10.) X-axis motor mount makes maintenance difficult
11.) Y-axis 'pinched' belt causes high tension / friction in the system
12.) Y-Axis friction too high - New solution needed
13.) Y-axis play/backlash HUGE!
14.) Bed mounting is not pretty and does not offer the most ideal 'corner' based adjustment
15.) New bed mounting / heating required so that the bed has no holes to disrupt the print surface!!
16.) Z-axis linear slide play/backlash HUGE! - New solution needed
17.) Cantilever approach to Z-axis allows a lot of wobble to take place
18.) Electronics enclosure too small.
19.) RAMPS electronics suck in general - Poor wiring solution
20.) Stepper drivers suck - The heatsink solution is awful!! these things are under super thermal stress!! my 12hr prints will just not work :(
21.) Steppers too exposed to create a nice clean aesthetic
22.) During assembly it's easy not to align the Z linear slide and X linear slide in parallel and perpendicular arrangements as required. Its easy to misalign them. Relies on user skill and eye for detail to spot the potential risk!!
23.) Bed springs are a bit 'DIY'
24.) Extruder spring a bit 'DIY'
25.) Extruder 'gripper' wheel teeth too shallow...need to be deeper for better grip!
26.) Nice super low friction, low backlash, low play linear slides!

...to name just a few :P
This seems like a pretty concerning long wannahaves list :). I'll try to answer them all.
1) done in new version
2) Adds to much complexity in my opinion. Wonder how you feed the filament. When extruder is properly setup this should be no problem.
3) The x-axis mass is still lighter than the y-axis table and moving rail, so improvement in this area will not have such a big impact compared to the y-axis. The new guides and extruder are a lot stiffer than old version, so any weight reduction might not be that signicant.
4) new guides solve this issue. With the drylin guides you can still tune it yourself to have acceptable friction.
5) can be reduced by tuning the drylin bearings. But due to gravity the play is always in one direction, so hardly noticable during printing.
6) When aligning the belt properly, this should be no problem, or at least not noticable
7) Will design new x-axis belt holder, based on Kjetil's design
8) tolerances are indeed tight, opto sensor might be an issue
9) You can make it upside down yourself. Adjust the mechanism fully down and start tuning from there.
10) Yep, it is indeed difficult to reach, till now couldn't find a better solution to easily reach the bolts.
11) Haven't experienced any problems with it so far. Can you explain more.
12) is done
13) is done
14) The bolts are as far as possible in current design. Did you experience any difficulties?
15) Solution is currently being tested, but it leaves still 3 leveling bolts
16) This can be tuned also with kapton tape behind the bearings. If there is a significant amount of play there, the production did not tune it well enough. Next version will have other guides, where this will not be an issue anymore.
17) Wobble should be minimal. It can be caused by the following. Badly tuned z-axis slider. Z-spindle is not straight, coupling is mounted under tension.
18) Done
19) I agree that it is probably not the best board available, but haven't really had any significant problems with it, except a blown mosfet or stepper driver.
20) see 19
21) Matter of opinion, but also hard to realize, because enclosing the motors will increase print time of parts a lot.
22) No solid solution for that, but to align the rails with the frame and measuring with a level tool
23) True, but also gives a linear spring characteristic.
24) see 23)
25) When extruder is properly tensioned, I haven't experience any problems with it so far. Would like to try your suggestion, but couldn't find a better alternative so far with such a small radius and which is an off the shelf item.
26) done

suraki
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Location: Hungary

Post by suraki »

Ok, here is my priorized wannahaves:
1. the new linear ball bearing set from version 1.5 :P
2. More supported type of filament materials with fine tuned profiles (like ABS, elastic, wooden, ...)
3. Universal Paste extruder head implementation (http://richrap.blogspot.hu/2012/04/univ ... -food.html) With quick release is nice to have.

stratogavster
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Post by stratogavster »

we've been hacked!

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