Anyone printing with Ninjaflex?

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seaton
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 9:04 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia
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Anyone printing with Ninjaflex?

Post by seaton »

About to order a couple of rolls and was wondering how this prints on the felix. Tips?

Cheers
Stephen...

Felix 2.0 -> Felix 3.0 dual
Simplify3D Slicer, Kisslicer
Have you added your Felix to the Map? http://goo.gl/maps/HajnZ

http://blog.strobotics.com.au

Dreide
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:32 am
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Post by Dreide »

I did a few prints before I upgraded to Felix 3.0 dual and it worked fine. Be careful though with printing on Kapton, because NinjaFlex sticks to it like hell (printing on cold bed, BTW). You might need to heat the bed in order to get your part off without damaging the Kapton. I ended up printing on cold glas, which worked fine for me (but the object was rather small, so...).
With the new upgrade installed, I only tried printing FilaFlex - without success though. I wanted to use FilaFlex because it is completely opaque (the black FilaFlex at least) and even a bit softer than NinjaFlex. But it has so little friction that the feeder slips just too easily. The 3.0 tensioner mechanism does not help, of course, but it might just be that FilaFlex is really tricky to print - more testing needed. I did not print with NinjaFlex and the 3.0 extruder yet, but I ran a quick extrusion test and it seemed to work much better than FilaFlex.
Here is a good read regarding the topic: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,269018,269018

Edit: I should be more precise regarding the friction issue. What I meant is that the friction between the filament and the gear drive at the motor is too low. In the cold end we obviously want to have low friction. However, as the elastic filament is pushed into the extruder and as soon as there is back-pressure from the hot end, it is also pressed against the extruder walls (because it is so elastic), which obviously also increases friction. Now, the surface of the NinjaFlex filament is very different from the FilaFlex and, although this seems to be contradictory, the NinjaFlex seems to have more friction at the driver gear and less friction in the cold end, both of which is good.

Mayhem
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:15 pm
Location: Finland

Post by Mayhem »

I have printed ninjaflex quite a bit and it prints well at least in 2.0, you need just right tension in filament tension screw.

The way i do it is, extrude 50mm and then turn slowly the tension screw until it starts to flow.
When my upgrade kit arrives ill do some testing how the 3.0 will print it.
Felix 2.0----> 3.0
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Simplyfy 3D
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seaton
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Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 9:04 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia
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Post by seaton »

Thanks guys, my rolls should be arriving today so will give it a go
Stephen...

Felix 2.0 -> Felix 3.0 dual
Simplify3D Slicer, Kisslicer
Have you added your Felix to the Map? http://goo.gl/maps/HajnZ

http://blog.strobotics.com.au

Dreide
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:32 am
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Post by Dreide »

I finally managed to print my piece with FilaFlex (black sleeve, see picture). The key was printing speed and idler tension. I printed at 210°C with 10mm/s for everything (1st layer, outer and inner loops) and set the cooling fans to 70%. Tension needs to be weak enough, actually. For a long time I could not get rid of filament buckling until I realized that I had to release the idler tension far enough - not really sure why, but I guess it is better to have rather the drive gear slip than the filament buckling. Once the filament buckles there is no way to continue the print, but when just the drive gear slips, the back-pressure from the hot/cold end will decrease eventually and the drive gear can pick up again and continue feeding the filament.
I also printed with NinjaFlex (blue bumpers, see picture), at 210°C with 17mm/s, but I didn't really try to push the limits. There was quite some stringing, but the strings or so thin that they are easy to remove.
Both prints were done with 0.2mm layer height and 0.4mm extrusion width, sliced with Simplyfy3D. The black sleeve was printed without any retraction and for the most part, the wall was only two loops thick. Where the wall was thicker it was filled with loops, and as I did not use randomized seam, there was no need for retraction. Weird enough, the seam was actually placed at slightly different angular positions for each layer and the loops were not printed all in the same direction (like all clock-wise), which messed up the seam a little bit as seen in the picture. But all in all a good print, I think.
I should mention that my printer went through quite some modifications along the way, but I actually don't think that they matter too much regarding the printing problems with soft filament. The modifications were:
  1. Widened the filament guide bore in the tensioner along the axis which is perpendicular to the motor axis. This was to avoid the filament unnecessarily rubbing against the walls of the guide in case there was some misalignment.
  2. Removed one crinkled washer from the tensioner stack, which also helped printing PLA with the old Felix 2.0 motor current setting (modification might have its share with that).
  3. Used the MK8 drive gear in order to get more grip (drive gear benchmark, supplier in Switzerland). Note that the difference in diameter between the Felix gear and the MK8 is minimal, so no other hardware modifications are actually needed to make it work (I changed the steps/mm from 164 to 180 in the firmware settings though).
  4. Made big holes in the extruder carrier block right behind the cold ends to get a better air flow.
  5. Drilled out the PEEK and the lower part of the cold end and inserted a Teflon tube.
As I said, some of these modifications might be helpful when printing with soft filament, but it was not that printing with NinjaFlex or FilaFlex seemed any easier with the modifications in place.
Attachments
Bumpers (NinjaFlex)
Bumpers (NinjaFlex)
Sleeve (FilaFlex)
Sleeve (FilaFlex)
Felix 2.0->3.0dual * Repetier (host+firmware) * KISSlicer Pro, Simplify3D * Cubify Design

seaton
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 9:04 am
Location: Bunbury, Western Australia
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Post by seaton »

Nice prints, I haven't tried the NFilaflex yet, but I'm impressed with the Ninjaflex. I did notice that I had less problems printing when I lowered the feed rate of the extruder for the ninjaFlex
Stephen...

Felix 2.0 -> Felix 3.0 dual
Simplify3D Slicer, Kisslicer
Have you added your Felix to the Map? http://goo.gl/maps/HajnZ

http://blog.strobotics.com.au

Dreide
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:32 am
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Post by Dreide »

Yes, NinjaFlex is really nice and, although the FilaFlex prints are a bit softer, the trouble getting FilaFlex printed is probably not worth it. If it wasn't for the opaqueness of FilaFlex I would have printed the sleeve in NinjaFlex. I wonder in how far the materials differ in terms of durability, for example, in water (the head band of my swimming goggles just broke recently: :geek: --> :o)
Quote from the fennerdrives NinjaFlex FAQ:
Is NinjaFlex water resistant?
While occasional contact with water will have no adverse effect on NinjaFlex, the product will degrade and lose its elastic properties when submerged in water for extended periods of time.
Felix 2.0->3.0dual * Repetier (host+firmware) * KISSlicer Pro, Simplify3D * Cubify Design

killejano
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:23 pm

Post by killejano »

The soft vilament I've printed with was sold to me as flex pla. I don't know what's the real difference the, but I noticed the same thing with idler tension. Extrude manually and turn just enough tension to get the material flowing.

Eli-Audio
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:23 pm

Post by Eli-Audio »

I'm trying to feed the ninjaflex through my V4 extruder with the V3 printer, but I can't seem to get it to push the ABS I used before to come out, so the Ninjaflex buckles over the entrance of the extruder...

So maybe the autofeed of repetier is to set to high?

Anyway, right now I'm printing the Formutura Flex EcoPLA, and this is a bit easyer.
Last edited by Eli-Audio on Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dreide
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:32 am
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Post by Dreide »

Eli-Audio wrote:I'm trying to feed the ninjaflex through my V4 extruder with the V3 printer, but I can't seem to get it to push the ABS I used before to come out...
You need to push the ABS out of the extruder with a temperature that is high enough for ABS (rather at the upper end of the temp range so it will flow easily). You might want to try "cleaning" the extruder with PLA first, before switching to NinjaFlex. Do not use high temperatures for a long time though because PLA or NinjaFlex might start to decompose at too high temperatures and then the residues might clog the extruder.
Felix 2.0->3.0dual * Repetier (host+firmware) * KISSlicer Pro, Simplify3D * Cubify Design

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